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[View] 		G3occ-1Country DoctorOnce during the game, when you have 3 planted fields, you may play the "Family growth" action as "Family growth even without room.0beso[37 Comments]
last post:
2014-10-16 04:45:29
by chris


id=3682
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 COMMENTSauthor
Country Doctor (occ-1+)
Once during the game, when you have 3 planted fields, you may play the "Family growth" action as "Family growth even without room.

[View playtest games] [View all dealt games]		 .beso
Oct 16, 2011 8:07am
[quote]
(Edit: Oct 16, 2014 4:45am)
I think this card would make Field Watchman even more powerful than he already is.

With Farm Steward, you have to sacrifice a little by renovating to clay early, making it generally more difficult to build rooms. Being in clay early doesn't give you any tempo advantage. But with Moonshiner, if you have 3 early grain fields, you not only can FG w/o room, you have a food engine set up with the grain rolling in.

Compare to straw thatched, which only gives you reed (albeit being a minor). You still need 5 wood and a build action to FG.		 inoshishi
Oct 16, 2011 6:37pm
[quote]
Farm Steward itself is already a very good card. This has to work with others, be it improvements or occupations. I think in most games people renovate to clay hut before they have 3 sowed fields. If you have no other improvement or occupation, having 3 sowed fields is much more difficult than having a clay hut, right? In this regard, I think this is weaker than farm steward.

In fact, renovate early works with many cards, including but not limited to Manufacturer, Social Climber, treetop house, Builder's Trowel, Male Servant, Plow Driver, Scholar...etc. I think you miss these cards which work well with Farm Steward.

beso
Oct 16, 2011 7:08pm
[quote]
sound way too good to me. ss
Oct 17, 2011 12:31am
[quote]
After you used Farm Steward, there is no need to build rooms... (because you'd need two additional rooms to have a place for the newborn). Generally I see clay huts earlier than 3 sowed fields.
So the only point is 3 sowed fields are way better than a clay hut (and need around twice as much actions).
How about increasing to 4 sown fields?		 makun
Oct 17, 2011 5:55am
[quote]
If it is really way better (take the moves you need into consideration), why do people still tend to have a clay hut rather than 3 sowed fields? I saw many games that at the end of the game, people have a stone house instead of 3 fields, not to mention 3 sowed fields. beso
Oct 17, 2011 6:10am
[quote]
(Edit: Oct 17, 2011 6:11am)
Quote from: beso on Oct 17, 2011 6:10am
If it is really way better (take the moves you need into consideration), why do people still tend to have a clay hut rather than 3 sowed fields? I saw many games that at the end of the game, people have a stone house instead of 3 fields, not to mention 3 sowed fields.

The problem, however, is that while both cards allow you (if you choose) to completely ignore gathering room building materials and taking (not to mention fighting for) a build action, the extra actions necessary to meet Farm Steward (clay, reed, reno) do nothing toward building your food engine unless you have certain cards.

With Moonshiner, you can focus on plowing and taking grain rather than gathering renovation materials. Then you not only have FG, but you have a solid food engine that will support you the rest of the game. A player with the card will make early field planting a priority, because it is highly profitable in developing both their immediate and long term goals. An early Farm Steward, on the other hand, pushes you on a path of one at the expense of the other. Played later in the game, it accomplishes both (hence its deserved status as one of the game's best occs), but usually as your fourth family member.

If you needn't gather wood, reed, or even clay for renovation, what are you doing in the first stage? Beyond playing occupations, plowing, and taking grain, almost similar to a solo game. And like I mentioned above, if you have Field Watchman, watch out.		 inoshishi
Oct 17, 2011 6:41am
[quote]
(Edit: Oct 17, 2011 6:43am)
It seems that ss, inoshishi and makun believe it is too strong as it is now, so I decide to adopt their suggestion. Change the text from 3 sowed fields to 4 sowed fields. Although I think that will make this card weak, but let's give it a try. Thanks, inoshishi, ss, and makun. beso
Oct 17, 2011 7:18am
[quote]
(Edit: Oct 17, 2011 7:19am)
I think the field watchman combo is no stronger than clay starter + farm steward (asuming you go for 3rd person w/o room)
Assuming you go for 4th person:
farm steward: 3c (~1 action) + 1r (~1/2 action) + reno (up to 1 action) = between 2 and 3 actions: 3 VP
moonshiner: 3 field (3 actions) (3g/v+sow or g sow/sow) (3-4 actions) = between 6 and 7 actions: 10-13 VP
assuming 2VP/action:
farm steward: 1 no VP action
moonshiner: 1/2-3/2 no VP actions, but food engine/oportunity to sow again
so arguable you have the same "no VP" effort in both cases, but you have a better standing after moonshiner
and both should be do-able for the 5th growth (in 4er)
combopotential:
because you need very few action, there are not many cards that "help" farm steward, but there are a few that have clay hut/stone house as preq.
there are lots of cards that help plowing/sowing, so the 6-7 action effort can easily be reduced to 5-6 with only one card
-] this card is a bit stronger than farm steward and certanly stronger than the average card, but I don't think it's too strong (assuming the power cap is bragart strenght)		 makun
Oct 17, 2011 7:21am
[quote]
Any more suggestion? Is it still too strong when you need 4 sowed fields to activate? beso
Oct 18, 2011 10:59pm
[quote]
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